Age 36, Male
Columbia College Chicago
Austin, TX
Joined on 3/27/03
Posted by MOC-Productions - August 15th, 2019
I'm wondering why I don't see much 3D art in the portal? I read that there's a rule against Source Filmmaker, but beyond that I'm not sure. I've been producing a lot of art in Cinema 4D using Kitbash3d and Reallusion characters and I'm hesitant about uploading it. Thoughts?
Here's an example of the one I just finished.
I remember reading some topic about this, where it basically came down to how there are so many textures/models/etc included in 3D work that the artists don't actually have the right to use, or haven't made themselves, that it becomes difficult for mods to know what's infringing or not.
I'm not sure if they actually just went and removed anything suspicious because of it - hopefully not - it might simply be that the amount of artists who work with fully original 3D are that rare.
There was also debate about the aspect of making something vs paying for something. For example if you commission something entirely: is it really your own? Do you have a right to post it? The parallel would be buying the models, textures, etc, and making something with that. It would legally be yours, but at the same time it'd be unfair towards those who actually do everything from scratch. In regards to 2D art it's generally not allowed to just trace something someone else has made, for example. Similar to how too many games based upon tutorials, or other games, would be considered shovelware. The balance between right and wrong in terms of legality/technicality feels a bit diffuse.
In the end I think it's still up to the artist at this point. It's still allowed - I think. Though since I don't think most of the people who make 3D art consider this at all, I'm not sure why it's still such a rare form compared to the others. Maybe for that same reason: because there's not much of it here, then 3D artists don't post much of that stuff here either. Maybe the community isn't as interested or supportive as a whole, and if so, a large part may be the stigma that people working with scene creators have brought forth. Like autotune in audio: the term just doesn't conjure the same level of respect as something 'real'. Though there's definitely exceptions.
I can totally see the negative stigma that would come with someone using some kind of scene creator and simply placing pre-built/shaded items and producing what's essentially a screenshot. I'd be ignorant to say what I'm doing doesn't seem like a similar practice. I purchase base 3d models, then create my own textures, model my own props and decorations, modify the downloaded models, light the scene, bring it in to Photoshop for comping and color correction, etc. So there's still a ton of work involved beyond just placing the 3D models that I feel warrants authorship. The kits I use are built specifically for this purpose as well and allow for a ton of variety. I guess the part that's hazy is there's not a specific identifier that says what kind of work was put in to it, but with art, that's rarely the case to begin with.
I'd like to post this stuff here because I value the community feedback of Newgrounds vs a more mainstream avenue like Instagram (where this type of art is quite common, I've found). Very tricky situation.
Oh btw, the scouting system comes to mind too. It may simply be that 3D artists generally don't get scouted, as regulars aren't confident enough to vouch for them with the below in mind. If you look through art by unapproved users there's definitely a bit more of this stuff.
Personally: I'm a bit split about all of this. I love the format, but I see the abuse potential too. If its all original then I am 100% supportive, but when shortcuts are involved... I don't know. If I'd tried my hand at 3D myself I'd probably at least have an opinion here. Part of me feels like it's unfair to judge based on effort more so than result, but part of me also knows how easy it is to make something based upon a template, and feels like everyone should somehow still need to create on equal terms to be judged with the right merits. Tough cookie.
Nothing against it, just not a whole lot of 3D artists, and the good ones are generally drowned out by porn models with 27 uploads of the same pose.
Ain't that the truth
Does sound like you put plenty of time into your work! Yeah, it's easy to say that unlike 3D, 2D art's always made from scratch, but with Photoshop brushes and what have you that's not always the case these days. There's all kinds of tricks you can learn even with traditional art to speed up the process, I'm curious, in the image above: are the buildings purchased models too? Does that apply to all elements, or mostly characters? Maybe with behind-the-scenes glimpses into work like this everybody could appreciate the effort...
Either way: looks pretty cool. The dust seems a bit unnatural, but I really like the lightning; setting overall. Complex architecture too if it's custom! Individual lit windows, reflections and all. It looks through.
I wouldn't mind seeing work like this in the Portal too, just attempting to answer that first question above y'know. ;) And now maybe I answered the other one! Hope you find a place for this.
The building models come from a really cool site called Kitbash3d. They give you texture packs to start off with, but in order to get the style you're looking for, you can manipulate the luminance, diffusion, color, etc. Sometimes I design my own textures from scratch, just depends. I did model, light, and texture all of the neon signs attached to the buildings, however. As far as the lights inside (and outside for that matter) the buildings go, I designed those myself as well. I'm learning that in the 3D world, an understanding of how light works is essential. I still have a ton to learn, but projects like these are a fun way to experiment with different techniques. Next time, hopefully I'll end up with more natural looking dust ;)
*Looks thorough, I meant to say. Can't seem to edit comments right now...
Cool. :) Yeah the light must be tough to master. Looking at this again maybe the neon's a bit unnaturally strong too, considering it's not that dark around. The lights reach far... but it does look good. Real mesh of color like this. Good luck! :)
TheDyingSun
3D art in the portal is what I would call uncommon. It's not a familiar medium to everyone and takes a whole bunch more work for a one time use scene compared to doing a one time illustration. There's also differences in styles and execution of 2D art that is a reason for more 2D art in the portal. I'm pretty sure SFM is allowed as a renderer, but it's in general kind of awkward when you're just using pre-installed models and locations and just pose the character and post that. Being creative on the other hand with using SFM, such as importing your own models and scenes, is better and not so looked down upon.
In summary, don't post a TF2 scene that you just posed the characters. In your case, I think you'd be ok. I assume you designed the scene in the photo above and that's the focus. You just might want to credit the character model.
MOC-Productions
Thanks for the info! Even though I didn't design the original models (which I paid for with a royalty free license), I put a lot of work in to modifying them and creating assets to decorate them with (neon signs, textures, materials, etc) so I feel it's enough to call my own creation where I didn't just copy/paste, then place a camera. I guess I'll post one, then see if I get chastised for it haha.